Britterna tror inte på Novitjoksagan

Novitjokhistorien är en tidsinställd politisk bomb som kan brissera när som helst och utplåna den nuvarande brittska regeringen, allvarligt skada förtroendet för EU:s statschefer och ge president Putin och Ryssland en lysande opinionsseger, utan att de har gjort något – och just därför.

När förgiftningen av Sergej och Julia Skripal blev känd i början av mars hade västvärlden och i synnerhet den brittiska regeringen kunnat agera klokt och diplomatiskt genom att nöja sig med att säga att misstankarna pekade mot Ryssland, ja att Ryssland befann sig högst upp på listan över misstänkta. Detta hade kunnat räkna med bifall inom världsopinionen, till och med inom ryska folket. Hade det sedan visat sig att Ryssland var oskyldig var reträtten inte speciellt lång.

Istället gjorde man något som åtminstone fick mig att bli övertygad om Rysslands oskuld. Trots att man valt ordet “troligen skyldig” handlade Storbritannien som om Ryssland, d v s Putin var 100% skyldig. Man utvisade en massa ryska diplomater och fick EU att göra samma sak. USA agerade försiktigare och utvisade mest icke-diplomater.

Detta totalt odiplomatiska och otaktiska agerande förvånade även en del “ryssätare” och det dök i medierna upp konspirationsteorier att Putin iscensatt giftattentatet för att provocera Theresa May till överilade aktioner.

Två nya förgiftningsoffer
Som bekant blev sedan ytterligare två personer förgiftade av Novitjok i närheten av Wiltshire. Detta kastade in affären i en helt ny komplexitet. Vad hade Putin för intresse av att förgifta dessa två vilsedrivna existenser?

Vi skulle nu förledas tro att en av de förgiftade plockat upp en behållare med giftet från någon papperskorg – som om dessa inte tömdes regelbundet i den ordnade staden Salisbury?

I går kväll fick vi veta att nu hade denna giftbehållare hittats i mannens hem. Konservativa Daily Mail hade ett omfattande reportage om saken i morse.

Skeptiska kommentarer
För att se hur läsarna reagerade på denna nyhet gick jag in i kommentarsfältet. Vid tidigare nyheter har dessa dominerats av folkliga uppfattningar att nu måste Storbritannien på allvar ta itu med Ryssland och Putins förfärliga regim. Men till min överraskning, ja nästan chock, fann jag inte ett knyst åt det hållet. Vad jag mötte var en så gott som samstämmig svärm av kritiska, ironiska och mycket skeptiska kommentarer. Det verkade som om brittiska regeringen förverkat all trovärdighet hos sitt folk, åtminstone de (konservativt lagda) som läser Daily Mail.

Nu kan det hävdas att många av de som kommenterat är oförbätterliga “putinister” eller till och med “ryska troll”. Jo, men var är alla de tusentals “patriotiska”, “toryvänliga” och “putinhatande” britter som kunnat ge sin syn på affären? Bortsett från ett och annat inlägg ljuder de flesta av kommentarerna genuint “brittiska” enligt min mening.

Inga nya kommentarer
Nedan en sammanställning av 95% av kommentarerna. De 5% som tagits bort har varit obegripliga. De senaste hittar ni först, så samlingen bör egentligen läsas från slutet. Jag har tagit med namn och adress i en del fall med längre inlägg. Mina klargöranden är inom [ ].

Sammanställningen gjordes mellan 11 och 12 svensk tid (14 juli). De senaste kommentarerna publicerades alltså mellan 09 och 10 svensk tid. Varför inga senare? Kanske blev tidningen själv chockad över bristen på tilltro till de traditionella medierna och auktoriteterna? [Har senare fått veta att Daily Mail tillämpar en 24 timmars gräns].

  • James, Grays, United Kingdom, about 2 hours ago: Now it’s a bottle not a syringe [spruta] which if it was in his house he must have for some reason picked it up and only now has been affected by it, this case becomes more and more curiouser and curiouser by the day
  • Sun TZU, Liverpool, United Kingdom, about 3 hours ago: There’s something not quite right about all this. Given that the substance is deadly, difficult to get hold of, original target has overtones of a professional hit, why would it be stored in a bottle then tossed away?
  • Whoever released it is pure evil; if kids had found it..
  • They struggle to find a body in a house, never mind a small bottle.
  • Surely they would of found it first day they were taken ill not weeks after and after the lady died
  • He should be able to remember why he had it and where he got it and forced to declare every detail
  • Still blaming Putin ??? People should trust authorities ??? and our police ???
  • What if they are secret Russian agents who bodged up! [reparera något slarvigt]
  • The Kremlin must be shaking…with laughter
  • Doug Canham, Kings Lynn, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago: The real question is this – where has that bottle been for several WEEKS prior to being found? Any bin or skip it had been dumped in would have been emptied several times in the interim. That means the couple found it weeks ago, but only opened it after a considerable time had elapsed, despite knowing the dangers ? Sorry, that just seems unbelievable.
  • Curiouser and curiouser
  • Why would anyone walking out with your partner pick up a bottle and take it home?
  • And where did they get it from, certainly not Boots.[Ledande apoteksfirma]
  • Ridiculous
  • Why did it take so long, I don’t believe any of this
  • All that time wasted and it was in the House .. What a joke
  • Jesus. You couldn’t make it up.
  • Leave Means Leave, Leeds, United Kingdom, 4 hours ago: Have the police considered that this Rawley fellow may have been the original source of this material.
  • MoscowStranger, Moscow, Russia, 4 hours ago: Sure thing further research will reveal that the vial [medicinflaska] has the state emblem of the USSR and the sign Made in USSR embossed on it. Why is the police struggling to find out how that thing happened to be in the guy’s home? Just ask him as he is fully conscious now. Then publish his answer.

  • Wonder if the bottle had Novichock written on the label – all seems a bit coincidental.[tillfälligt]
  • All very interesting…my guess it’s not from the original batch, but a back up just for good measure [för att vara på säkra sidan].
  • Grag63, Aberdeen, United Kingdom, 4 hours ago: Something just does not square off here. An extremely dangerous bottle turns up in the house? Surely every corner and hiding place in that house would have been gone over within hours. Something is wrong here.
  • If it was found in their house, how the hell did this couple get it?
  • So not the Russians? Apology needed then ha ha
  • Absolute non sense. Most likely a government diversion tactic.
  • 9 days it took? Sack them.
  • 9 days?
  • So they the police have searched the house for 9 days ? What are they blind? This is too convenient to be true….. now tell us the truth!
  • Convenient find.
  • Mike Vienna Wien, Austria, 5 hours ago: Seriously, if you were a highly trained agent would you transport a highly toxic agent around in a very breakable glass tube? Nope, didn’t think so. If this was a TV series it would be getting panned for all the holes in the plot.
  • FastFranky North Point, Hong Kong, 5 hours ago: Do no one thought the count the number of vials at Porton Down to confirm how many are missing?
  • WeThereYet, Perth, Australia, 6 hours ago: It would have been an innocuous container found in any house, it wouldn’t have been a glass vial with a skull on the front and Russian writing. So everything in the house would have been sealed and tested. That’s why it took so long…….could have even been shaving cream.
  • Gordon1064, Chelmsford, United Kingdom, 6 hours ago: Why out of all the bottles and other containers at the house would this one have been ‘rushed’ to Porton Down for tests. Surely that’s the only place every potential container could have been checked? Presumably the entire contents of the house would need some sort of testing?
  • Everything taken for testing
  • KeobeoAlan London, United Kingdom, 7 hours ago: This nerve agent ain’t very lethal is it? Out of 5 infected (Inc that policeman back in March) 1 person died. For something designed in a lab to be a killer it’s seems to be about as lethal as severe food poisoning?
  • Sad that we can’t trust our own governments not to do something like this.
  • Another episode of ‘Jackanory’ [barnprogram på BBC]
  • It’s all very strange.
  • All depends on legal of contact and concentration of the substance.
  • How deadly can this stuff be? So far, 3 out of 4 infected with it appear to have recovered.
  • I just read up on this nerve agent again on a reputable science site. It usually kills within 30 seconds to 2 minutes!
  • Why did he have phial [medicinflaska] of it is the question we need to establish.
  • I can confirm he had it in his possession because he found it..
  • Would really like to meet the person who is leading this investigation, he or she hasn’t been seen since the pink panther films Did the bottle have a label on it saying ” drink me”
  • Why would it be in a vial rather than an ampule? If I were carrying something so deadly around I’d want it in an ampule.
  • It’s a press report by someone who hasn’t actually seen the container. An ampule once broken open lets the contents go everywhere a vile can be re-sealed.
  • The conspiracy theorists must be having a field day with this one!
  • The plot thickens
  • Mmmm whatever next??
  • See the conspiracy theorists are out in force yet again. Let’s wait for the facts and then make definite conclusions.
  • Don’t hold your breath, facts are a scarcity these days.
  • Nerve agents mean instant death. This must be the worst quality nerve agent on the market!
  • Some say Putin was near house!!! is that possible….
  • They keep saying it was Russians did it. How do they know this?
  • Planted…
  • Too many Red trolls on here
  • No, it says if found please return to Mr V Putin, Moscow.
  • The perpetrators will have made sure the bottle or the glass will be of a special type found only in Russia
  • Clearly planted, the police are well known for doing this.
  • What does it say on the bottle “property of the Russian Secret Service “
  • Swiss Truffle, Dublin, Ireland, 11 hours ago: …I know, this is a repetition, and with all respect to the forces engaged on this, WHY closing parks and sending out “alarms” to the public BEFORE the most obvious place is searched? It reminds me of this poor girl who was killed and left in the attic for many days while police confirmed repeatedly that the search was complete!!
  • The whole thing if it wasn’t so tragic is comedic.
  • This has obviously been set up to calm public panic, don’t believe a word of it.
  • My first reaction to this headline: Yeah Right!
  • This is weird…
  • Loulabella78, London, United Kingdom, 12 hours ago: I’d love to know the genuine probability of finding one discarded bottle amongst all the rubbish & lost items in a city centre. I appreciate the weather has hindered the amount of time scientists can spend in protective gear and they are all volunteers & apparently few of them, surely if they had been looking for a bottle or a container every bottle in that flat could have located within hours? Maybe this has come from Charlie’s chat with the police. Glad they appear to have located it.
  • When they first carried out searches 4 months ago, the weather was very different, and the timing of this find suggests that Charlie has pointed them in the right direction.
  • What was he doing with a bottle of poison?
  • The British government have put it there.
  • None of it makes sense.
  • It had to be planted somewhere in the end and this happens to be as good a place as any for the narrative.
  • Baffling? So why was it there?
  • Haha and let me guess it has Putins fingerprints on it!
  • Just remind me what proof there is that Russia had anything to do with this??
  • Rachel, London, 12 hours ago: This story is getting stranger & more confusing….what if Russia was never involved originally?
  • Hmmmm, strange…..
  • What a coincidence a result while Trump is in the country. Also next visit to Putin!!
  • So a person has died so inquest Where did the original source come from?
  • Made in the UK
  • How long before ‘they’ say they’ve found Russian fingerprints on the bottle?
  • So why taken that long to find a vial considering how long they been searching … Not something one would normally have lying around
  • Perhaps the reason why they took so long to find this bottle is because it was inside another bottle that was inside another bottle that was inside……………etc etc!
  • A result while Trump is in the country and he visits Putin next, what a coincidence!!
  • Did they find it down the back of the sofa?
  • Of course their house! If only we had sharp minded detectives to consider the house
  • This could become a boxed set on Netflix soon?
  • Where’s Columbo when you need him?
  • I sense we’re being fed a narrative.
  • Derzu Uzala, Ulan Bator, Mongolia, 12 hours ago: Is the label on the bottle in Russian?
  • They think this will ruin the World Cup final but they will be so disappointed.
  • I do not believe a word of this!
  • The plot thickens. At will have to issue a grovelling apology to PUTIN
  • Becky2015, Northampton, United Kingdom, 13 hours ago: This is the most oddest story I have heard, most definitely a cover up and I think the government are very silly to be blaming the Russians when let’s face it they don’t care and would tell us straight if they played a part to it.
  • Show me the proof. This is a fairytale
  • Hahahahaha!!! And you are protesting Trump!!!
  • I feel that the Novichock affair will appear as a blameful disaster for the British security.

  8 kommentarer for “Britterna tror inte på Novitjoksagan

  1. Anders Persson
    2018-07-15 kl. 6:29

    Jag uppmärksammade inte att det fanns ytterligare ett hundratal kommentarer äldre än de som återges ovan. De finns på Daily Mail länken ovan. De går i samma stil som senare kommentarer:

    -SERIOUSLY? The Police have been turning Salisbury and Amesbury upside-down looking for the ‘source’ but didn’t bother thoroughly checking Rowley’s HOUSE???

    -Britain will look bl##dy stupid if these poisonings are nothing to do with Putin.

    -Something about this does not sound right. Can’t put my finger on it.

    Osv.

    Läsarna kan också värdesätta kommentarerna. Cirka 90% av värderingarna till de kritiska kommnetarerna var positiva. Den mest uppskattade var den som började: “9 days for chemical experts to find a bottle in the drug addicts house? . . .” och den minst uppskattade löd: “Now lets hope they find the Russians who brought it to the UK.”

    På denna hade någon svarat: “Or the Americans or the Ukrainians.”

    “The Sun” och “Daily Mail” har färre publicerade kommentarer varav 70-80% är kritiska.

  2. Anders Persson
    2018-07-15 kl. 9:17

    Det är också tankeväckande, mycket tankeväckande, att läsarna av Daily Mail, “vanligt folk”, ställer just de frågor som våra utbildade journalister skulle ha ställt, både de i Storbritannien, och där inte bara till Theresa May & Co utan också till polismyndigheterna, men också våra egna i Sverige, bla. till Stefan Löfvén, som helt okritiskt köpte den brittiska versionen.

    Västerlandets journalister har, men några undantag, som t.ex. Simon Jenkins https://www.lindelof.nu/om-novichok-planterades-av-ryssland-var-finns-bevisen/ inte agerat mer självständigt och kritiskt än deras kollegor i gamla Sovjetunionen.

    Är det mot denna bakgrund, och andra, egendomligt att folk tappar förtroendet för massmedierna och söker alternativ information på nätet? Hur många är det som, liksom jag, läser svenska tidningar och ser på svensk TV mest för att ha koll på vad Öfverheten vill att vi ska tycka just nu?

  3. Björn Nilsson
    2018-07-15 kl. 13:04

    Jag tycker själva namnet Novitjok låter som någon märklig “modedans” från 60-talet:

    You will dance around the block
    when you hear the Novitjok!

    Originalet framfört av Chubby Checker, svensk version av “den rockande greven” Charlie Kuylenstierna. Här låter det mer sinistert:

    Ge din tjej en riktig chock
    med en dos av novitjok!

    Detta med tanke på att ryska utrikesdepartementets formidabla taleskvinna Maria Zakharova i en intervju påpekade att gift av den här typen också funnits i svenska labb. Vi får vara glada att inte engelsmännen avkrävde en förvirrat stammande Stefan Löfven en förklaring varför svenskt nervgift plötsligt förgiftar helt ovidkommande engelsmän!

  4. Anders Persson
    2018-07-19 kl. 8:48

    Vårt så “sanningsenliga” SVT meddelerar att brittisk polis tror sig ha identifierat misstänkt novitjok förgiftare https://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/brittisk-polis-tror-sig-ha-identifierat-misstankt-novitjok-forgiftare Det är möjligt, men alla andra medier som har storyn berättar att det kommer från en privat källa och att de brittiska polismyndigheterna vägrar kommentera saken. Polisen i Wiltshire har heller inget att berätta om detta https://www.wiltshire.police.uk/article/3029/Police-searches-starting-today-at-Queen-Elizabeth-Gardens-in-Salisbury

  5. Anders Persson
    2018-07-25 kl. 15:56

    Dagens Nyheter berättar idag från The Sun, att novitjokgiftet som hittades 1 juli låg i en parfymflaska.

    – Jag minns att jag hittade en parfymflaska och gav den till min partner i present […] Hon sprejade giftet på sina handleder i tron att det var parfym i flaskan. Inom en kvart var hon allvarligt sjuk…

    DN uppger inte vad som berättas i dagens The Sun”: flaskan var oöppnad. Den kunde inte ha använts i första attentatet!

    Några läsarkommentarer:

    “Something isn’t right here…”

    “This scenario gets more and more ridiculous. So a Russian hit man, has flown in, brought two lots of this thing. Used 1 on the Russians, then throws the next one away.”

    “Happy birthday, darling, went to Harrods and I got a bottle of “Novichanel Number Five” for you…”

  6. Anders Persson
    2018-07-25 kl. 16:14

    Reportaget i Daily Mail är utförligare http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5987495/First-pictures-novichok-victim-Charlie-Rowley-release-hospital.html och har fler (1000+) skeptiska kommentarer:

    – This entire episode is the strangest thing ever. What on Earth is going on here?

    – Girls, be very wary of perfume ! Amazing what you find in skips nowadays!!

    – MI5 would not allow any of the true facts to emerge and he would be paid to spread misinformation about the whole incident. This not only protects him but lets the investigators pursue real leads. Why don’t people seem to see this?

    – I thought the whole investigation and basis for identifying people was that SHE found whatever item and that it had been picked up the previous day.

    – First it was a syringe, then it is a sealed perfume bottle… something is going on that our own government isn’t telling us.

    – No way in a million years this story adds up. I am truly sorry for the women and this man I am. BUT something is not right.

  7. Anders Persson
    2018-10-06 kl. 11:06

    Det rapporteras nu från Storbritannien att MI5 sedan länge haft tillstånd att “mörda, tortera och sexuellt förgripa” sig också på brittiska medborgare inom landets gränser, om det låg i “nationens intresse”. Min källa är inte Russia Today, Sputnik News eller ens någon rysk TV-kanal, utan gamla pålitligt brittiskt konservativa Daily Mail. Se också Guardian.

    Daily Mail verkar vara på hugget i denna affär och har gått vidare och granskar mystiska dödsfall av brittiska politiker. Aftonbladet hade en blänkare om något liknande i vintras.

  8. Anders Persson
    2018-10-07 kl. 0:18

    Egentligen borde inte detta vara någon större sensation, ty redan i mars gick brittiska regeringen ut med ett tillkännagivande, vilket “publicly admitted for the first time yesterday that MI5 agents could carry out criminal activity in the UK.” Detta skedde 1 mars, bara några dagar innan de mystiska händelserna i Salisbury.

Kommentera

E-postadressen publiceras inte. Obligatoriska fält är märkta *

Denna webbplats använder Akismet för att minska skräppost. Lär dig hur din kommentardata bearbetas.